Join Bridge Winners
All comments by Max Schireson
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Thanks Steve. Is the solution making points transferable “downwards”?
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Leigh,

Do you think that many ACBL members living outside the US care about being ACBL life masters?

My assumption would be no but I am in the US and haven’t discussed with foreign players so I am curious.

Also are the black points an issue?

— Max
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Why are transfers announced?

If it were an alert, many players would not ask because they would assume they know. If the “alert” were, for example, that 2H actually had the highly unexpected meaning of showing hearts, often players would not expect that. Having everyone ask every time would only slow the game down.

The range of all notrump openers needs to be announced. Imagine asking 3 times and hearing 15-17, then you don’t ask and it’s 12-14 for a different position/vul. Again better to just announce.

The range of NT overcalls is neither an announcement nor an alert unless it is outside “normal” (I think defined as 14-19 for a 1NT overcall). This makes sense because while weak or mini NT openings are reasonably common enough to justify an announcement of range, very few play eg 1S (1N) as 10-12 or 12-14.

Most cue bids are not alertable because they are considered self-alerting - opponents wont expect them to be natural and will ask if they need to know.

Unusual 2NT (and Stayman, and common ace asks…) are not alertable because they are considered common/standard.

How does the process work? I think a committee works on this, and presumably considers the trade off of slowing down the game vs opponents being surprised va helping partner remember and tried to decide what best balances those trade offs, while minimizing the number of special cases to memorize.
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
I just followed the link posted at bottom to read Migry’s account of B/L.

Some of the discussion was about whether some of his teammates likely knew for many years, and if they did whether they reasonably could have convinced the sponsor to not hire the suspect pair. This system would have changed that dynamic significantly.

(Yes, I recognize that Lavazza is a special case with a non playing sponsor; the simple solution would be that a player has to assume this responsibility in the case of an NPC. This solution would also eliminate “disposable” NPCs on teams where the sponsor plays.)
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
It is part but not all of what I would like to influence.

I think there is something fundamentally wrong with the model of hire a cheat and win and either:
- you don’t get caught and you keep the title
- you get caught and you give the title back

Yes, it’s embarrassing to have a cheat on your team and have to give titles back, but I would like to see stronger incentives to not only do diligence in advance but pay more attention to what’s going on with your team once they were hired.

I think most people agree that Boye did a good and brave thing around F/S. I don’t in any way blame him for not doing the same when they were his teammates, but I think if this rule were in place he or others might have caught them earlier. Maybe a Spingold lost to cheating would have been saved. Maybe more.

Would this reduce the pressure on ruling bodies to catch cheaters? Possible, but my belief (which certainly could be wrong) is that more accountability in the ecosystem would increase pressure overall, including on the authorities.

Also I think it is unfair to put the whole financial burden of enforcement on the league, which trickles down to membership fees and table fees across all events, when it should be shared by the the pro teams in major events.

Again I don’t think this proposal is likely to be accepted, but my experience is that leaders of organizations pay attention to what they are accountable for, and this could and should be harnessed to help clean up our game.
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Nope, those are all red points.
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
David,

The offense would not be a failure to act on past evidence.

The offense would be having a pair actually cheat on your team. Past evidence or actual knowledge would not be necessary.

Yes, I think past conduct would be examined closely. If I were going to put together a team under this structure, I think the process would be something like:

1. Ask around about the pairs I am considering. Right now people presumably ask around regarding perceived skill; if this rule were in place people would as around about possible cheating too. I might ask Steve Weinstein and Michael Rosenberg and Boye Brogeland if they would have any worries about a given pair. There are 3 cases:
A - they tell me absolutely no worries, they are extremely confident that pair is not cheating. I hire the pair and don’t worry
B - they tell me they don’t really know; they have no significant suspicions but don’t have enough knowledge of the pair to be 100% certain
C - they tell me that I should be careful hiring this pair

Let’s say A is 20% B is 70% and C is 10%.

In case A I hire the pair and that’s that.

In case B I hire the pair, and I hire an auditor for the team. For example, I pay Kit Woolsey or someone to keep an eye on the teams results and report anything suspicious to me. Note that every public company has auditors to double check the financial statements; this is in significant part to prevent fraud. If you say you sold company X $500k of your product, the auditor calls them and asks if they bought $500k of your product (among other things that they do).

In case C I don’t hire the pair.

I think most people organizing serious teams would have sufficient contacts to be able to follow a process like this, which I think would reduce the likelihood of cheating on those teams quite a lot. Those who did not would almost always have a partner who did.

Top level players putting together amateur teams would have the skills to audit themselves; sponsors who were short of that hiring pros would hire top level players for that role. Right now people hire coaches etc; why not also invest in keeping the game clean.
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
I don’t think they need LM status anyway, since they are able to play in LM pairs based on equivalent status in another bridge organization.
May 9
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Also opener could sometimes have only two cards in their minor - if they opened 1H with 4=5=2=2.
May 8
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Timo:

I never intended to convince anyone why it’s ok to play against Lanzarotti.

I did repeat the arguments I heard that led to me entering an event they were playing in. I am still not sure that decision was right, but I am happy that Sabine and Roy presented what seems to be a principled framework that seems consistent with the decision I made.

Truth be told I still feel moderately uncomfortable about my decision, but given the choice between:
1. Taking a strong stand against a cheater who was convicted before my time and served his sentence - when I judged that others would not join - at the potential cost of not being able to play competitive bridge
2. Accepting a decision I strongly disagree with by the ACBL to readmit that player

I mostly did the second. I did my little protest of boycotting hotel blocks for a year (still in progress), but wasn’t willing to potentially give up serious bridge events over the issue.

I apologize if my repeating what others told me about why they thought it was ok came across as supporting the idea of playing against Lanzarotti.

In the end I made the practical decision to make only a low-personal-cost protest against something I thought was wrong and worthy of protest, but not so unspeakably wrong as to be willing to protest without regard to personal cost.

Others can judge whether this was a reasonable decision but I don’t want to pretend I thought readmitting Lanzarotti was remotely ok, or not bad enough to be worthy of protest.
May 8
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
John,

I will admit that I could be wrong but the unpopularity of my idea hasn’t convinced me that its wrong - only that it won’t happen and therefore isn’t worth pursuing.

Yes, my thought was a one year suspension from playing for a first offense. I think this would lead to behavior change, not just in who was hired but questions about fortunate leads and defenses for example, that would clean up the game. I am not saying those questions would always catch cheaters, but the change in culture would be significant and I think helpful.

Since cheating convictions are extremely rare the number of souls sacrificed would also be small, and their sacrifice would be temporary. As to whether they are innocent, I agree they likely would be innocent of deliberate wrongdoing, but sometimes they might be guilty of insufficient oversight.

My default would be a suspension for first time offenders, but I outlined a set of circumstances in which first time offenders might get leniency. Those circumstances might not be exactly right, but the idea was that if they were innocent not only of deliberate wrongdoing but also of insufficient oversight they might not be suspended.

I think the notion that a captain is actually responsible for their team is new, and people seem not to like it. Perhaps it loses more than it gains.
May 8
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
So now your issue isn’t whether they changed their mind but whether they admitted changing their mind? Or whether and how they would address whether they changed their mind?

You are losing the forest for the trees. This has nothing to do with “betraying their own words”. I am done discussing this with you.
May 8
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Felix,

“more importantly, is to betray their own words”

This is what you have wrong.

Changing your mind is not betraying your own words. Sometimes you have a better idea. Even if you don’t like their new idea, it seems very clear that it is designed to achieve the same goals as what was previously discussed.

I do not favor criminalizing teammates in general. I do think that the leader of an organization- including a bridge team - needs to be accountable for its conduct. Captains, not teammates. I only point this out because you mischaracterized what I said, which others have said is a pattern in your posts here (I have not read carefully enough to know). My idea may be misguided but it is not what you describe it to be.

“not knowing how to make myself look good”

If you stop obsessing about “betraying their own words” when that’s not a reasonable description of what happened, and stop mischaracterizing peoples statements, not only will you look better (which you may or may not care about) but I predict you would participate more productively in the discussion. You might even win more people to your side on an issue you say you care about.

It is true that you made some other suggestions, I apologize for suggesting that you are only attacking others, that was wrong and unfair.
May 7
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Felix - you are having trouble finding the right word because Roy is not trying to (anything) himself.

Sabine and Roy are trying to find the best way to deal with a difficult situation that they did not create. It is clear that they feel passionately about it, as do many of us.

I am not interested in parsing exactly what each player said before to compare it to what they are saying now to see if their view of how best to keep the game clean has changed. I am interested in good ideas to keep the game clean. I think entering and refusing to play against certain opponents is one such idea and I am glad that Sabine and Roy are doing that and publicly discussing their choice. Others believe it is better to not enter, which I also understand, even if my view is that Sabine and Roy’s choice will create more “noise” and hence has more chance of causing change.

This course of action is also more difficult and risky for Sabine and Roy, so the idea that they are somehow backing away from a commitment against cheaters is senseless.

For you it seems to be all about finding or creating some basis to attack well known players for changing their views, so I am not surprised that you think Roy’s statements are self-referential. The rest of us hear an earnest discussion about how best to keep cheaters out of the game. We may not agree, and we may change our minds, but we are trying.

You may think your comments somehow make you look good because you are “taking down” a famous player. Actually they make you look petty and small minded because you are missing the point.
May 7
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Robb,

For the record I don’t think anyone should be punished for playing with a rumored pair. I am only saying that someone should be responsible for *actual* convicted cheaters on a team.
May 7
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
I initially found this argument compelling and therefore thought invitational seemed logical (putting aside what I had discussed with my partner and forgot, doh!)

But it seems that there is trade off: when you cue bid then support hearts, you might also have something like xxx Jx Kxx AKQxx and be offering a 52 heart fit? Do you have some other way to bid that hand? It seems playing 3H as GF with 3(+?) card support lets you make your real heart support clear in case either partner has slam interest.
May 7
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Thanks. If I saw that document I forgot, but now I know!
May 6
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
I am with Marty, I can’t think of a hand where I would make that bid without agreement. If my partner did bid that way, I would guess invitational with hearts and a club suit they couldn’t bear to not bid. Maybe xx, Kxx, KQJTxx, Jx.
May 6
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
I recall one hand one which I revoked on defense. I wasn’t sure what the rule was, but I was aware that on defense it could create a problem for me to give partner information about the hand while we were defending.

I had no idea what to do.

I saw the director in the direction of the restroom. I put my cards down and said excuse me and ran towards him. (Yes I acknowledge that this is not provided for under the Laws!). I quickly and quietly told him I had revoked on defense and asked what I was supposed to do. He said go back and play the hand, no need to report it and next time I probably shouldn’t make the fact that I had a problem so obvious.

I ran back to my seat and played the rest of the hand feeling very uncomfortable with this rule to continue playing the hand.

The moment the hand ended, my partner reported my revoke.
May 6
You are ignoring the author of this comment. Click to temporarily show the comment.
Gary,

My view is that if you want to pick up a pair to add to your team here and there without accountability, that’s fine. Whether they are paid or not is not the issue.

If you organize a team for the whole cycle, you should be responsible for that team. If you aren’t willing to take responsibility for that team, maybe you have a pro partner who is. If they aren’t either, maybe that shouldn’t be a team.

You would not be able to get it in writing from “the community”. If you want to participate at that level, it’s on you to know what you are doing, or find a pro who does and is willing to take responsibility.

Not to be callous, but in my view either you care enough to take responsibility or you don’t; either is fine, and your view might change over time.
May 6
.

Bottom Home Top