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4NT if that is what asks for key-cards. In fact I could bid 7♥ immediately because partner seems not to have a spade stop and then where are his points?
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In fact NV vs. VUL you still go only -1700 if you take no tricks in 1NT doubled. That means you still win 11 IMPs if they have a grand. And if you go down 6 for -1400 and they have a small slam you have still gained 1 IMP.
Which suggests the idea that maybe doubled undertricks should not depend only upon your vulnerability but also upon the opponent's one.
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In view of the club fit (West doubled clubs, a suit not promised by East) East's double may be criticized to some extent although I fail to find a good alternative because 4♠ would suggests clubsa as his second suit. Maybe 4NT would do. However, West's pass lacked thought. He knows of a 10-card fit and if his partner is short in clubs that's also good news for him. 4♦ seems indicated.
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If you open 1NT on every 5♥(332) then GF, if not then F1 (you have to bid something with a stopperless balanced hand). So an ‘Other’ would have been useful.
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I used to play:
1♦-2♣ ? 2♦: 5+♦, UNBAL. Now 2NT/3m is INV, 2M is ART/GF. 2♥: BAL. Now 2NT/3♣ is NF, 2♠ is pup2NT with various GF hands, 3♦/M is SPL/GF with long clubs. 2♠: 4441♣, unlimited. Now 2NT/3♣ is NF, 3♦ is GF with clubs, 3M is trumps. 2NT: quasinatural, 6+♦, GF 3♣: NAT, NF 3♦: solid suit, GF 3M: SPL 3NT: 18-19 if included in 1♦ but this hand may also bid 2♥ and go on later.
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Actually we do play 2♠ to show 4 and 3♠ to show 5 although I am not convinced it is the right way to play. There seems to be a gap with which I'd find 3♠ as excessive. The hand in question is exactly such a hand. So I bid 3♠ but with a fear in my heart.
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Thanks, I know what XYZ is.
Our case started with 1♣ (not 1♦). And in traditional methods, 1♣-1♦-1♠-2♣ is a correction, wanting to play 2♣.
I can't see particular need for 2♣ being a prelude to game invitation. 2NT, 3♣, 3♦ and 3♠ seems to me adequate armory to express various invitational hands.
The 2NT puppet to 3♣ may be fine, although sometimes you'd prefer to contract for only 8 tricks.
In my view XYZ is only justified after 1m-1M-1NT. Or maybe after 1♣-1♦-1NT as well if playing Walsh.
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OK, let's go further. The actual hand is worth 8 points. How much is KQxxx,xx,Axx,Kxx? Let's say 7. Now KQxxx,xx,Axx,Qxx? Is that 6? And KQxxx,xx,Axx,Jxx is 5? Continuing downwards we get that a 1-point hand is about 6 HCP… and the hand which is not worth a non-serious 3NT is about 5 HCP.
I begin to think that my 7 point value is actually too high.
EDIT: I was assuming 1 rating point to be roughly equivalent to 1 HCP. That was wrong, we can use a finer gauge. Still, it seems to me that if the given hand is worth 9 then a value of 1 will be assigned to a hand below opening strength. Unless we use an unpractically fine gauge, e.g. about 1/4 HCP.
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Pass is my alternative but I'm a coward.
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Which suggests the idea that maybe doubled undertricks should not depend only upon your vulnerability but also upon the opponent's one.
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
Gábor Szőts
However, West's pass lacked thought. He knows of a 10-card fit and if his partner is short in clubs that's also good news for him. 4♦ seems indicated.
One can only wonder what ‘fairly good’ means.
Gábor Szőts
So an ‘Other’ would have been useful.
Gábor Szőts
1♦-2♣
?
2♦: 5+♦, UNBAL. Now 2NT/3m is INV, 2M is ART/GF.
2♥: BAL. Now 2NT/3♣ is NF, 2♠ is pup2NT with various GF hands, 3♦/M is SPL/GF with long clubs.
2♠: 4441♣, unlimited. Now 2NT/3♣ is NF, 3♦ is GF with clubs, 3M is trumps.
2NT: quasinatural, 6+♦, GF
3♣: NAT, NF
3♦: solid suit, GF
3M: SPL
3NT: 18-19 if included in 1♦ but this hand may also bid 2♥ and go on later.
Please note that with 4♦ we bid 2♦, not 2♣.
Gábor Szőts
Partner had xx,AJ10xxx,Jx,10xx. I guess he would have bid 3♥ over 3♣, then who knows.
The above situation is hypothetical, though. South actually chose to double and of course North jumped to 3NT. Unfortunately, clubs did not behave.
Gábor Szőts
So I bid 3♠ but with a fear in my heart.
Gábor Szőts
A really nice guy indeed.
Gábor Szőts
Our case started with 1♣ (not 1♦). And in traditional methods, 1♣-1♦-1♠-2♣ is a correction, wanting to play 2♣.
I can't see particular need for 2♣ being a prelude to game invitation. 2NT, 3♣, 3♦ and 3♠ seems to me adequate armory to express various invitational hands.
The 2NT puppet to 3♣ may be fine, although sometimes you'd prefer to contract for only 8 tricks.
In my view XYZ is only justified after 1m-1M-1NT. Or maybe after 1♣-1♦-1NT as well if playing Walsh.
Gábor Szőts
How much is KQxxx,xx,Axx,Kxx? Let's say 7. Now KQxxx,xx,Axx,Qxx? Is that 6? And KQxxx,xx,Axx,Jxx is 5?
Continuing downwards we get that a 1-point hand is about 6 HCP… and the hand which is not worth a non-serious 3NT is about 5 HCP.
I begin to think that my 7 point value is actually too high.
EDIT: I was assuming 1 rating point to be roughly equivalent to 1 HCP. That was wrong, we can use a finer gauge. Still, it seems to me that if the given hand is worth 9 then a value of 1 will be assigned to a hand below opening strength. Unless we use an unpractically fine gauge, e.g. about 1/4 HCP.